I thought it would be timely to ask the people of the Village how they felt about ICE, after one of their trigger-happy agents shot a Dominican man in the neck while he was driving in upper Manhattan with his five-year-old son. I usually like to find at least one dissenter when asking about controversial topics. In this case I could find none. Everyone I spoke to expressed outright disgust for Trump’s out-of-control militia. As a reporter I’m not supposed to editorialize while interviewing people, but, well, I slipped a couple times.
Bryce Gustafson:
ICE should not exist. They’re punishing people just for where they were born. And that’s the most anti-American thing I can possibly think of. It breaks my heart to see the way people who come from countries have been impacted by our decisions, by our government’s decisions. People come here for the same thing that we all want, which is to have safety, and to make a better life for themselves and their kids and grandkids. And just because of the color of their skin, it doesn’t even matter beyond that, that institution is trying to take their freedom away. It’s so anti-American, it makes me want to scream.
I’ve never seen anything this extreme. I’m Jewish, and never in my life have I compared anything that happens in this country with Nazi Germany. And now I do. Because these are roundups. You know, these people are being dragged out of their homes and their cars, they’re being killed, they’re being sent to God knows where. I mean, we’ve had anti-immigrant sentiments forever. But nothing quite like this.
I’m from a white community in Indiana. I know a lot of white guys think, oh, it’s going to stop with the people that they’re yanking off our streets. But they’re coming for everybody! It doesn’t matter if you voted for the current administration or not, they’re going to come after you. There are flock cameras everywhere! There is surveillance everywhere! This is just a test! Eventually they’re going to come after anybody that doesn’t conform with their agenda.
You said you’re a veteran. When did you serve?
Ninety-six through ninety-nine. And at one point, I was the only white guy in an eight-man section. I learned a lot of Spanish! I found out that we’re all just people at the end of the day. We need to find our common humanity.
These are dangerous times we’re living in. But I always like to think that when things get bad enough, we will find a way to reverse them.
A young African-American woman, a New Yorker who now lives in Berkeley, CA:
We heard there was going to be an ICE surge in San Francisco, which is a sanctuary city, but that Larry Ellison somehow convinced Trump not to do it. This seems problematic for all kinds of reasons. Like, why do we need oligarchs to protect us from out-of-control presidents?
We have this mayor, Mamdani, and he gets together with Trump occasionally. I mean, they’re both New Yorkers. And they seem to have kind of a weird rapport. And it looked as though he was able to get Trump to put some reins on ICE here. But then we get this shooting uptown recently, which was very upsetting.
I know. That was terrible. I was in the 11th grade when 9/11 happened, and I remember the massive protests that happened when the US decided to invade Afghanistan, and then Iraq. And nobody liked Giuliani anyway. I mean even before that, there were protests against him. But now there’s this undercurrent of super-conservative fascism that sometimes happens in New York, that’s very upsetting to see. You know, the immigrants who live here deserve to be safe. They deserve all of the rights that the colonizers had when they came here!
I’ve been around for a long time, and I’ve never seen anything like this in this country, people being dragged out of their homes and their workplaces and cars…
I don’t know how they get away with it. It seems incredibly unconstitutional. I don’t think [the agents] have gone through any background checks.
Well, how can you even identify them?
I’m a woman of African American descent, and I don’t know if this country has ever had fair laws, you know? I mean, the way that they’re supposed to be fair. There are always people who are excluded from the protections of the law. So, I don’t know what to say, except that it’s really sad.
You know, if 20 years ago, we had a crystal ball and saw that Donald Trump was going to be president…
Yes, I think that would have been a surprise. Nobody would have believed it.
I’m an optimist, and I am hoping this is the darkness before the dawn.
I don’t have that optimism. I don’t think it’s going to get better.
Really? But you seem so calm about it.
I’m planning to leave the country.
You are? Is there any particular place that you anticipate living when you leave, or you’re just still contemplating?
No, I know where I’m going to move.
But you don’t want to tell me?
No.
What is your name?
Can I be anonymous?
You can.
Kevon Cameron:
I believe that, obviously, you want people to follow laws and come to the country legally, but I don’t believe that what ICE is doing is the proper way to handle a situation. I mean, what happened with Renee Good and Alex Pretti obviously was not the proper way to handle the situation. And I could be wrong, I’m not a legal expert, but from my understanding, coming into the country and staying past your VISA is more of a civil offense, not a criminal offense. So I don’t understand the point of an organization like ICE. I think it should be disbanded. Hopefully that will happen. Probably not within the next two years, but hopefully after that, we’ll have a more equitable and compassionate way of dealing with people who want to come to this country, whether they overstay their visas or not.
Dallas Gonzales:
It seems like ICE has become a militarized arm of the government. I mean, immigration is a civil offense. It’s nothing that people should be armed to enforce. I think that’s atrocious. It’s a weaponized tool to instill fear, and not just in the immigrant community. Normal citizens and immigrants alike are being targeted. And the fact that some of our own citizens are actually volunteering for this, and getting paid to be cruel to an already marginalized group of people, is sad. It’s heartbreaking.
You bring up an interesting point. I mean, where the hell are they even finding these people? And they run around in plain clothes or with masks on their faces, so we can’t even identify them.
And I think about the people that defend this administration, and I don’t know how they can defend anything that ICE does. They say that they’re enforcing the law, you shouldn’t break the law, you should do it the right way, but they are also speaking from a place at the table where they’ve never needed to go through the immigration process! So they don’t know anything about the complexities! Just the amount of time that it can take, and the legal loopholes that are almost impossible to get through, especially without an attorney. If you can afford an attorney! Hell, most of us can’t afford an ambulance ride! We need to simplify the process for people. We need to make it much more accessible and clear.
Ashley Gates:
(She’s enjoying a drink at a bar on West Fourth Street. When I ask her about ICE she gives a thumbs down.) So you’re saying ICE is bad.
I think that they are overfunded, compared to, say, other federal departments that could use the funding. I mean, okay, are there certain instances where maybe we need a little, tiny bit of enforcement? But I think that ICE is generally unnecessary. It seems like this all started in 2016. With the rise of Trump, ICE took center stage. All that talk about the bad guys coming in from South America, all that came in with Trump.
And here it is, 10 years later, and they’re still talking about that they’re only going after the bad guys and the gang members, and most of the people they’re dragging out of their homes have no criminal record.
Exactly. They’re just normal people trying to do the whole American dream thing. It doesn’t seem like the Trump administration, and ICE in general, are intelligent or skilled enough to really distinguish between the good guys and the bad guys. I’m a white lady who doesn’t have a close association with the immigration issue, but if you’re someone who cares about other humans it’s hard not to have feelings about it.
Passing man:
There is a real negativity behind (ICE). They are doing nothing positive to help the public. I think that it’s a misuse of government funds. There’s nothing more that I can add to the conversation.
